Intro: 

Everyone talks about growth and the need for more sales, more dealers, more reps, more marketing, and more opportunities. Or in some cases, it's better of each of these. But what happens when a company is trying to grow without a true strategic foundation? What if the issue is an effort, it's alignment? Many businesses think they have a strategic plan, but when you start asking deeper questions, what they really have is a wish list, a goal speak, or disconnected initiatives that aren't truly connected to the future that they're trying to build. And that's exactly what we're diving into in today's conversation.

Sponsor: 

We'd like to thank our presenting sponsors, Avanto, services and software that streamline how you operate and the collaborative network, a platform where leaders in the contract interiors industry unite.

The Collaborative Network Ad:  

If you're leading sales, marketing, or growth in the contract interiors industry, you already know this work can feel isolating. So that's why we built the Collaborative Network. It's a peer-driven community for manufacturers and leaders who want real conversations, real accountability, and practical insight, not generic advice. No posturing, no sales pitches, just experienced people working through real challenges together. If you're ready to grow smarter, check us out at thecollaborative.network.

Sid: 

Welcome back or welcome to the Trend Report, your inside look at the people, products, and ideas shaping the future of workplace design. I'm your hosted Meadows, and today's conversation is a little bit different. We're talking about something that impacts nearly every small business owner in our industry. But honestly, it's not discussed nearly enough. The importance of a true strategic plan. And I would like to welcome back to the show my friends, Susan Pilato and Michelle Warren. Susan's with Mantra Inspired Furniture. Michelle is here today representing the Collaborative Network.

Defining A Real Strategic Plan

Sid: 

Excellent. Yeah. So, Susan, this is your second time on the podcast. Michelle, I've lost count of how many times she's been up to the podcast. I might as well just make her like a monthly recurring. But it's great to have both of you here. And we're excited to really dive into this now. In full disclosure, Susan is a customer of the Collaborative Network. She just recently went through our business accelerator program where we work with small businesses in creating True Strategic Plan. Susan's program lasted about nine months, going through all the different steps of doing it. And Susan, I want to start the first question with you. And when you think back to where your business was a year ago when we started talking about this, you know, what type of strategic plan did you have at the time? Or what did you think you had?

Susan:  

Well, there you go. What did I think I had, right? Well, I mean, we we understood our mission. We understood what we wanted to do. What we didn't have completely together was the plan on how to get there. And you know, when we talked a couple of years ago at Bifma, you shared this idea with me. I was sitting, I'll never forget sitting in there with you and Michelle, and you all were explaining what you were listening to. I'm like, can we do it now? Can we do it now? Can we do it now? Like, I could not wait. It's like, yes. And I knew then that's what we needed to get to where we wanted to go. We needed people who had outside perspective. I understand what it is to be a commercial designer because that's what I am. Understand what it is to be an unaligned dealer. I understand how to procure furniture, I understand that side. I've become to understand what it is to be a manufacturer because we started in 2018. 2021 was when we came out to Neocon. But, you know, it's being immersed out there in say Neocon or Death Mom, be it get putting yourself out there to meet people like you. Had I not done that, I wouldn't be here talking about this today. So it starts with putting yourself out there. And that's not always easy. And sometimes people think as leaders, we don't have time. Right. But if you do not take the time, you are not going to learn how to grow.

Sid: 

That is so very true. Because it does take a commitment to actually truly build out a strategic plan. It's not something that you do overnight. So, Michelle, I want to come to you for a second because in your history, you've built strategic plans for organizations. And then you built your own strategic plan for Catalyst when you started Catalyst five years ago. What would you say were some of the hurdles that you saw exist when you're building a strategic plan?

Michelle: 

Well, first, I want to kind of echo what Susan said, not only putting yourself out there. I remember, and I probably told this to you, Sid, because we were talking, like we've been friends for a long time. And I remember the idea of getting outside help. And I was like, why do I need to pay someone? Why do I need to pay someone to help me? It was the best decision that I ever made to pay someone to help me. It just in my mind, I was like, why would I pay someone to help me do something that I've done before? But it was a different, you know, I was building my own business versus writing a strategic plan and working a strategic plan for a manufacturer. So I just want to echo that you put yourself out there and open your mind to possibilities that inside information is good, but outside information, different perspectives is game changing. There are things that I would never think of on my own, but even just brainstorming with somebody, right? Get you to where you have a different idea of putting it together. I think there are, you know, there are a lot of hurdles, just things that starting up starting a business from scratch, like that I just didn't understand. I didn't know what I needed and what I didn't need and when I needed it, and when I needed to invest in certain things. And so I would say hurdles were that like when do I hire as opposed to trying to do it myself? You know, need to invest myself. Do I really need to invest in outside coach? Do I really need to invest in a software? All of those things were biggest hurdles five years ago.

Sid: 

Well, you're asking yourself a lot of questions that I know a lot of small business owners ask themselves, right? And what immediately came to mind as you were describing was this analogy of you can't see the forest for the trees. When you're inside your own business, it's really hard to really see your business. And having outside perspective is really valuable, if nothing else, to brainstorm and or just ask you questions that maybe you don't think about on your own, right? So you're doing that. But I also like this analogy of you don't build a house without a foundation. Why would you build a business without a strategic plan, which is the foundation of your business? And that's really what's going to help to catapult your growth. So, Susan,

Why Activity Is Not Strategy

Sid: 

I want to come back to you for a second. Why do you think that business owners, as a business owner, why do business owners and leaders confuse activity with a strategy or a checklist and goals with a strategy? Why do we why do because I'm a I'm one of them, so why do we confuse that?

Susan:  

So, you know, it's it's exciting just to be around activity, right? You know, things are happening. You think they're moving you forward, but if you don't have a strategy of what that activity is set to bring you to, say you set a goal of here's what we want to do, whether it's neocon, whether it's the for the year, for sales, growth in your rep network. But how are you going to get there? What are the steps? Or the the activity, I think, sometimes gets confused as that is something that because something's happening. So naturally it must be going towards a goal. But is it the strategy is what is pulling all that activity towards the goal? Some of the activity needs to stop, some of it's busy work, or it's micromanaged. Leaders often do that, especially, especially, especially small business people. You you're so accustomed to controlling it yourself that you are like, I can't let it go.

Sid: 

Right.

Susan:  

Uh I've really trained myself over the years of trusting the people, letting it go to them. If they need to ask something, please come back. But to me, it's like they've got it, I'm not thinking about it unless they need to come to me and let's talk about what it is. So I think in order to have that strategy, my point in saying that about the people is you got to trust your people, but they also need a framework. What's the framework in which we all are working together to get to that ultimate goal?

Michelle: 

Yeah, and I think jumping in on that just for a second, as as you were speaking, Susan, I was thinking about probably year two, year three of my business. I just I had to write on a whiteboard, like what was my goal? What were the things I was trying to accomplish? Brand awareness, being, you know, the seen as the leader in in this part of the industry, so that I can make decisions that led me there. Because I found that people were asking me to do stuff and I want to say yes. I want to say yes, yes, yes, yes. But I was like, but this isn't getting me to my goal. So I strategically had just a whiteboard and I just wrote what they were. And every time I got asked to do something, or every time I had a great, what I thought was a great idea, I looked at the board and said, does it get me to one of these three things? Because if it doesn't, I have to say no right now.

Sid: 

Yes. That is such a valid point, Michelle. I mean, the fact that you made it visual that you can see it, that these are the things I'm working towards. And if I get asked to do this, we call that shiny object syndrome, right? If I get asked to do this, we like to solve problems and we want to say yes to it. But it if it does not move my business forward, then I have to say no to it. Because the saying that you hear a lot, you have to slow down to speed up, is very, very true. You have to. So true.

Susan:  

So true. I love that. Yeah.

Sid: 

Well, Susan, you talked a minute ago about the struggle. You didn't use the word struggle, but I'm using the word struggle. And I think that part of what I see from business owners is you started the business. It's your baby. You have everything invested in the success of this business and building this business. And a lot of times you're wearing multiple hats. You're the CFO, you're the CEO, you're the VP of manufacturing. In some cases, you might be the marketing director, too. And you're wearing all these different hats, and that's a lot of pressure. And I think that that's one of the things, one of the challenges that actually exists is that most leaders are they're not falling behind, and businesses aren't falling behind because they lack ambition. They got the ambition and the desire because you you started the business, right? They're doing it because they're overwhelmed and they're carrying too much with them. So from your perspective, why is it that you think business owners

Ego Fear And Getting Outside Help

Sid: 

avoid doing the deep work to create a strategic plan? Because it is, it's it's going to be in that bucket of deep thinking, right? So why do you think that we avoid this deep work?

Susan:  

Ego, fear. Say more.

Sid: 

Okay, okay.

Susan:  

Okay. So it's something that I constantly keep that in front of me. You know, we all have one. I don't care who you are, down the house.

Sid: 

Yeah.

Susan:  

And you know, allowing yourself to be vulnerable to say you don't know everything just because you're CEO, just because you're a business owner, you do not know everything. I don't. And that's why I value people like yourselves that have, I mean, just the individual conversations that I've had with each of you and your team, just I always come out learning something. And I think you probably come out learning something from me as well. It's that's how that's how it works. So that we all get better together. And if you just allow yourself time to sit back and go, okay, here's where I want to go. I need our team to help us get there. We do Clifton Strengths. I don't know if you've heard of that, but that's where you yeah. We love that we hired someone years ago. Every time an employee comes to work for us, we have them complete this test, we see what their strengths are. This person consults with them, explains it, and you know, the people come out of it going, Wow, I didn't know that about myself. It feels good. And then we understand they would be perfect for such and such. This is how they fit into our team. So the people of your team are critical to your strategy, and also it's critical to your for one, mental health, emotional health, physical health. And I say that because you can't do it all. And if you try, you're gonna you're gonna damage all three. So understanding how you fit in as a leader with your group, how you help them, being a leader doesn't mean that you have all the answers. I think that's that's a myth or something that we have been expected to live up to, which is unattainable. So when you sit back and go, okay, I I think I know what my strategy is, to say I absolutely know 100% what my strategy is as one person, and you haven't talked to all your people and come up with it together, yeah, that's dangerous. Yeah, that's that's a formula for disaster. You come up with it with your people and then you evolve leadership perspectives, which is what I I look at you as.

Michelle: 

Yeah.

Susan:  

Come in and help guide us. It's not that you're telling us what to do, right? You're helping us guide what we're trying to do. Yeah.

Sid: 

That's exactly what the program is. It's done with you, not done for you. A lot difference there, which is why it takes nine months. And just to briefly talk about it, you worked with each of us for uh two months each. So you worked with me for two months, Michelle for two months, Aaron and Julie prospectively, because we all have different strengths and different skill sets, and that's really the format of how we actually worked together with you to build out your strategic plan. But you know, when I think about the work that goes into this and what people do and what people don't do, I think a lot of it is that they're just they don't know the questions to ask themselves, and then they're not getting it from the outside. But I want to go to this team thing you've brought up a

Hiring Decisions And Smart Risk

Sid: 

couple of times, which I think is very, very important. And Michelle must start with you. How did you know? This is a question for both of you, but I want to start with you. How did you know when it was time to hire your first employee? Because a lot of small businesses only have, you know, them and maybe their partner or spouse, maybe their kids in the business. Like, how did you know when it's time to hire your first employee?

Michelle: 

Gosh, I wasn't very strategic, honestly.

Sid: 

Most people are, Michelle. Most people are.

Michelle: 

I wasn't in that point. You know, I um there were two people that were available and I sat down and had conversations with them. Like prior to that, if anyone that spoke to me before knew this business that I was building was just gonna be me forever, and I was riding off into the sunset of retirement, is what I told everyone.

Sid: 

I have it on recording when she said that, by the way.

Michelle: 

So two years later, there's ten of us. But it really was I saw the opportunity, right? I I saw that I couldn't grow past a certain point as myself, and then I saw the opportunity of availability of these two gentlemen that I just had you know much respect for and confidence in their skill set. And then it was kind of just a conversation of, hey, I don't know what you're doing next, but why don't you come join Catalyst? And they were open to it. I've told you this. When I first started, I did not really have a strategic plan. I had an idea and I knew I could do it. And one of the gentlemen that I went to lunch with sat down and put a piece of paper across the table, and I was like, What is this? And he's like, It's a business plan for a company that I was gonna start 10 years ago. And I read it and I was like, that's my business. I was like, you started. That's fantastic. Come join my team.

Sid: 

Oh, that's great. That's great. What you're actually highlighting, Michelle, is risk and strategic risk and when to take the risk to hire people. But Susan, I'm gonna come to you. When did you know it was like time to make your first real hire?

Susan:  

I mean, you're talking forever ago, Sid.

Sid: 

Yeah, yeah. Well, think specifically more about Mantra. Like, when did you know that you wanted to because Susan owns his co-owner of a dealership as well. So, but when did you know that for Mantra it was time to hire?

Susan:  

Well, let's we can share now that we have just recently acquired completed hardwood. So we can we can share that now. It's public knowledge and super excited about that. And I can tell you a recent experience that it hit me that we need someone that is really going to be in her title is Chief of People and Strategy Officer.

Sid: 

Yeah. I've known her for years. Thank God she was available to hire. She's been wonderful. She has done so much more for us than I imagined. Sure. And for the people. And the reason we quickly did that, Donna, I looked at Donna and I'm like, I think we need to hire Diana. And she's like, I think you're right. And we talked about why. And the reason is that our people are most important assets. And understanding how each of them work, how each of them can be more efficient if they're working either with another group or together, however it is with individual leaders. But you know, the leaders like our design director and and with mantra, we've got, you know, Matt's got a lot going on being a creative director. How how do we use, let's think creatively. We've got great staff just because they're over here in this department, or they help over here some for a task. So instead of having it so siloed, uh, we realize that we needed someone to help us to spend time with the people and getting to know them. You know, I I know them, I've gotten to know them, but I, you know, I don't have time to sit down with we've got now 40 people. It's difficult to have, you know, that time to and with her, she's thinking strategy. So that higher, I couldn't have told you a year ago that that would be something that we'd be doing. But things changed in your business, including the acquisition, the opportunity for an acquisition, growth that you're already experiencing organically, and then that led you to say, okay, we need to do something here. And there was someone available that to Michelle's point, the availability of people, it's a little bit about risk mitigation and what risk are you willing to take? How much of a financial risk are you willing to take, or how much you're willing to invest in that person?

Susan:  

That part's scary. It's still scary. I mean, it's scary every day.

Sid: 

So, what advice would you give to a business leader right now who's thinking about making a maybe maybe making their first hire or maybe adding their first non-family member to their team? What advice would you give to them?

Susan:  

Well, you know, I think so often we think, oh my gosh, how am I going to and and when I say this, yes, you don't gotta figure out how you're gonna pay them. You're gonna have to figure out how you're gonna have the money. But you know, oftentimes that will freeze us into a position of not moving. Yes. And I believe one needs to realize that if you're serious about the goal of having your business and business succeed, you cannot do it on it. So you're at a place that either you're gonna have to get off the train or stay on that train and you're gonna have to take that risk. You cannot do it without people. You're just and investing in people, that's how you get to your goal, period. I mean, it's just it's how it works. And having to carve out that salary, you'll figure it out. You will.

Sid: 

Yep.

Susan:  

It's scary, believe me. I know, I live it, but and you're not gonna be the only one that comes up with a solution.

Sid: 

Right. We also have to think about what's the reward. Like you hire someone, and let's be clear: hiring someone does not necessarily mean that you have to hire a full-time employee. You could hire a part-time employee, you could hire a contractor who works on an hourly basis or on a monthly retainer. You don't necessarily have to hire somebody and put them on your payroll and give them benefits and all this kind of stuff. You don't have to do any of that. The way the world works today, there are tons of contract resources available to you. So if you wanted to hire a marketing person and you hired a contract marketing person to work for you 12 hours a week, what does that free you up to do? Focus more on the improving the quality of your manufacturing, focus more on driving revenue, hiring independent reps, focusing on your strategic plan or your sales plan. Like you're saying yes to something that's giving you the ability to say yes to something else to lean into strategically grow your business.

Susan:  

Every time we've done that, when we've invested and said, okay, this is that they're going to take over this part, or what it has helped this business grow. It a hundred percent has every single time. Also, with what you're talking about with contracting, too, that gives you an opportunity to. Get to know them because sometimes it doesn't work out. And that's not fun.

Sid: 

It's like test driving a car for nine months. You get to test drive it and say, I don't like this. Let's send it back. I mean, that's the really great thing about it. But what you're also talking about, Michelle, I'll come to you.

Working On Versus In The Business

Sid: 

Why do you think that so many business leaders spend so much time working in their business rather than on their business?

Michelle: 

I'll say number one is we don't understand the difference. There are days that I'm like, oh, I did really well working on my business. And then I'm like, wait a minute, nope, that was in my business again. Um, so I would say number one, that is we truly don't understand what it means to work on our business versus in our business. And then I think uh the second issue is we get so caught up in the business, and we maybe you Susan mentioned micromanage, maybe not even micromanage, but feel that we are we have to be in it all.

Sid: 

Responsible for it.

Michelle: 

Yeah, responsible for it. We've got to touch it all. We aren't willing to give up control.

Sid: 

Yeah, that's great. Susan, so since Michelle brought it up, answer the question, please. What's the difference between working as a business owner? What from your perspective, what's the difference in working in your business versus working on your business?

Susan:  

Well, you know, both are necessary because you got to work in it to because we do have a role to fill. To me, working on the business is strategy. When you mentioned that, I just visually picture just standing back and looking upon your business. And where do we want this to go? What is happening? How and right now what we're going through is okay, let's let's see how created hardwood, what their processes are, how Mantra processes are, how do we blend those? Some can be better. Each have their positives, each other their things, and I don't want to say negatives, but things that could be improved upon.

Sid: 

Yep.

Susan:  

And so how do we blend those? And so that's to me, working upon the business. Working in it is actually going, okay, let's talk about XYZ, software, whatever. So that I I think the leader also needs to understand have an understanding of what we're doing. We don't necessarily have to be in it all the time. Right. So that's where you're in it for a minute and then you come out and let your team take it.

Sid: 

An example of that might be you're looking to do a new ERP system to manage your sales pipeline. Rather than you being directly involved in the evaluation and understanding it, you empower your team to do that for you and then bring the solution to you. Say we've evaluated these three. Here's the pros and cons of each. This is our recommendation, Susan. What do you think? You know, what's your thought here? That's empowering them for.

Sponsor: 

We'd like to thank our supporting Silver sponsors, KIP, who helps furniture brands visualize and sell products before specification. Navitas Credit Corp. Navitas makes great workspaces affordable, turning furniture projects into easy monthly payments. Web Configurator Services, the leader in AI-powered online product configuration and quoting.

Sid: 

It's hard for leaders, I think, to really understand this. But working on your business to me also means giving yourself the grace to just think. Like think about what's going on. To sit in your office and to I mean I brainstorm with myself on a daily basis, right? But just to think about where you want the business to go. There's so much power in deep thinking, and that's part of working on your business, but it's really hard to look at your calendar and go, well, I blocked off an hour today to just think. But it's so very important, right?

Susan:  

It is. It is so funny you said that. I listen to a lot of books because sometimes I don't have the time just to read. So or I'll listen to music. Pink is my favorite, by the way.

Sid: 

That's great.

Susan:  

But I've shut my radio off. I've shut everything off as I'm driving just to have some silence. I don't normally do that, but I'm in that position right now of needing that.

Sid: 

Yep.

Susan:  

And I'm recognizing it, and I'm proud of myself for recognizing it because I haven't always thought to just sit in silence.

Sid: 

Yep.

Susan:  

And it takes it takes some doing. And I think leaders, especially, because so much is coming at you during the day of, hey, we need this decision made, we need, or hey, this is happening. There is always going to be problems. There are always solutions needing to be figured out. And we have, you know, the ebbs and flows, right? Right now we're going through a pretty big flow of things that need solutions in all different parts of the business. So that time just to be quiet and let things just settle so that you can clear that path. And that's kind of like what we're talking about with strategy versus activity. It's like activity is a lot. Strategy is taking the time to think and just clear the path to where you want to go. That's how I see it.

Sid: 

So very important. Michelle, anything you want to add to that?

Michelle: 

I would just say I agree a hundred percent with what Susan says, obviously. But I I was thinking as you were speaking, like activity is the here and now, and strategy is the longer term, the more visionary work, right? Because your strategy, you have to look at what's in the future and you have to play with, you know, I could do this and it would leave here, or I could do this and it could leave here, which activity is like, let's just get stuff done right now, right? Like just so activity to me is like immediate need, get it done. Strategy, you need that silence because you got to think through all the different things that could happen.

Sid: 

That's great. So, Susan, I'm gonna come back to you, I'm

Bringing The Team Into Strategy

Sid: 

gonna shift the conversation a minute, I'm gonna go back to team. So, one of the decisions that you made, which we were honestly surprised at, is you brought your team into the strategy calls each category. You invited your team into the discussion about the sales strategy, the marketing strategy, the public sector strategy. I mean, all these you brought your team into those conversations. What was the reason for bringing your team into it? And then what was the impact to your organization?

Susan:  

I couldn't imagine it any differently because they see things in their perspective. Here's the thing. I really believe deeply in diverse perspectives. You know, if if you look at our company, you see quite a bit of diversity, and that's our strength. That's one of our that's one of our biggest strengths because somebody may have a different lived experience than me and see things, and naturally you're going to see things differently. And that's how we get a better understanding of where we're trying to go. So bringing them into the conversations that we've had with you all, it's helped me to understand something different. Like, for instance, I might hear Michelle saying XYZ about something, and then it could be Tamisha, it could be Megan going, Yeah, but I heard blah, blah, blah. And it's like, huh, right. And it's not that one was wrong. It's like you're hearing different things because your viewpoint is different. So we're coming to the center with a better understanding. We got in in a way, you get a bigger bang for your buck because you've got the different teammates that are going to be working together to get to where we want to go, and them all hearing from you. And also just you getting to know them, getting to know us, you understand more of the personality of our company. And that way, you as a consultant have a better opportunity to understand how to work with us because you're seeing who we are. So the impact you asked has been wonderful because they come out of it energized, going, oh wow, you know, I didn't expect that to really, oh wow, you know, that really helped me understand. Oh wow, blah, blah, blah. You know, it it was a lot of that. In fact, Matt, when he was working with Aaron and came out with this beautiful timeline, it's like having someone just sit there and go, dude, I get you. Yeah, you know, yeah, we want to do all this. That's not reality. So let's break it out in timeline. And when you see it, and then he's sharing it with me, I'm like, oh, right. How can we maybe farm some of this out so we blah, blah, blah. So it it just having that different viewpoint, uh, it was very impactful to have our team coming out learning from you all, but also adding to what we learned from you all. And it's building on itself.

Sid: 

So, what happened to your culture? Thank you for sharing that by the way. But what was the impact to your culture by bringing your people into this conversation? Because when you bring them in and they're part of the process, they believe in the plan that they help build versus you and your executive team doing it and then presenting it. Here's our strategic plan for the next five years, right? What was the impact to your company's culture?

Susan:  

Yeah, so you know, I I've never quite understood, because I've I've worked with several companies that, you know, they do that, right? They have their, they go on to their corporate retreats and all that. Nothing wrong with that. I get it, but you're missing out if you're not bringing the people that are out there actually dealing with whether it's the client or the reps or whoever or the manufacturing plant part. You know, it there's you gotta understand their date and to understand how the business really works. The business isn't working from just the top. It's really working from across the entire company, those who actually are touching, whether it's touching the product that's being made, shipping it out, the people that are dealing with the customers, the reps, the procurement officers, whatever, you know, those you gotta understand what they're seeing in order to see where the trend is going too. You know, that's where trends the trends are created, not by leadership. They're created in in the C-suite. They're trendy, they're created by what's happening out there, how people are evolving. And it's happening quickly. You know, look at Gen Z and the effect, effect of Gen Z. Sidney and I have Gen Zers. You know, look at what they're doing out in the world. I'm so excited about what's happening and the freshness that they're adding to our industry. If we don't have people that are involved in talking to us about what they're experiencing, how are we going to be relevant?

Sid: 

That's a silo. Like you're that's about working in a silo. So thank you for that. Michelle, what would you like to add?

Michelle: 

I just want to say that I don't think that it's like purposely done. Like I think it's a matter of how many people do you want in a room, right? So there's retreats and that sort of stuff, like it can get out of hand. But I have two examples from my career. One where I was in those rooms doing the strategy, but I was pretty far removed. I mean, I was an executive VP, and then I had senior VPs under me and VPs under them and regionals under them, and I'm making the sales strategy. I knew a lot, obviously, because I had worked my way up, but then I had to turn around and present it, and there were a hundred questions. Why are we doing that? Well, that doesn't make any sense because right, like they weren't part of it, and I only had so much knowledge at that point because I had was kind of far removed. And then I've been on the other side where decisions were made, and I was running the vertical markets team, and they would say stuff, and I would get so sarcastic and frustrated because I was like, dude, like you didn't even consider this, like you didn't even consider this whole section of your business and how that's going to impact that. And it would just it leads to so much frustration. I eventually left, right? But it just leads to so much frustration because you you feel like not that you're not included, like I didn't feel like I always had to be included in every decision, but when you just totally missed my entire division and you made decisions that didn't make any sense to me, I I shut down, right?

Sid: 

Yep, I get it. I've been there. I mean, I totally get it. And you know, it just goes to silos, especially in small businesses, aren't gonna work. So bust down the silos, bring your people together, involve them in the process of helping you to create your foundation, which is your strategic plan. And that's going to, I believe, set you up for longer-term success and implementation, because they're gonna be able to go and do and implement the things that are part of it because now they believe in it. And I think that's what's really important. They helped you, they believe in it.

Michelle:  

I think you need to find a way, and I use this term a lot, and I I know it's kind of hard to get your arms around, but everyone wants a seat at the table. It doesn't have to be the big table. They all want a seat at a table, right? And if you're not giving them a seat at even a smaller, it could be tiered tables, right? You know, this table that you use, this smaller table that goes, I don't care how you do it, everyone wants a seat at the table. And when they don't feel they have it, they at some point check out full-time checkout, part-time checkout, because they feel that they don't have a voice and their opinion doesn't matter.

Sid: 

Very well said, Susan.

Susan:  

Well, um, you know, I lost my train of thought because I was looking to Michelle and I was like, that is really, really good.

Sid: 

She said something brilliant.

Susan:  

I got it. I got it, I got it back. You know, tables are kind of my life right now, so yeah.

SWOT Alignment And Shared Language

Sid: 

Yes, they are.

Susan:  

So the SWOT analysis that you went through with us, and I know a lot of people do SWAT analysis, but you went into a little bit of a deeper dive that was a bit unusual than what I've done in the past. But we had the whole team, and it was interesting how aligned we were. I came out going, wow, we and it wasn't like, let's see what she says, make sure you know I'm saying the right thing.

Sid: 

Yeah.

Susan:  

It was just throwing it out. And then there were some others that were like, oh wow, I hadn't thought of that. That was really cool to have everybody together doing that together because it's again different viewpoints of what a strength or a weakness or a threat could be.

Sid: 

Then you pull them all together and

How Planning Prepared A Merger

Sid: 

look at them holistically. So, Susan, you went down this journey and you were excited to partner with us and go down this journey of creating this, and it lasted almost a year. Now that you've got it, tell us about the impact to your business that you find that you have a solid foundation, Bill. What's been the overall impact to your business?

Susan:  

Well, it's still yet to be seen, and here's why. We just acquired Created.

Sid: 

Yep.

Susan:  

I I tell you, I mean, you know, I believe very much in the universe will have, as they say, you know, you put out your positive, your manifesting, you know, things. How how I could have ever dreamed that we were going to have a merger with created hardwood a year ago, it just no. No way. No way. But we I'll tell you one thing, we did know that we really, really wanted our own manufacturing plant. We knew that we needed that. We needed it. I wanted to have craftsmen that worked with us. We have that now. My point in all this is that you all came at a time in our lives that was perfect, absolutely perfect, to prepare us for what we're doing right now. I would not have been near as prepared in what we have been doing, or I've been doing with Phil Hicks, who is amazing, by the way. Just he and I have just become fast partners. He's the previous owner of Created, he's now our chief revenue officer. But what I was so much better prepared after working with you all for this opportunity and to walk us together into what we're doing right now. For instance, the commission structure that we have, the rep, all the rep structure of material that we have. This is something that the current reps from Create It did not have. We can do that now. You prepared us for this. I had no idea at the time that we started with you all that this is what we'd be doing. But my goodness, there was divine intervention that brought you all and said, Susan, you gotta have that. Because I'm I knew that day that we were outside at the Bifma launch, and you were telling me about this, the Bifma 360 leadership conference launch.

Sid: 

Yep.

Susan:  

And I remember thinking this, I can just remember it coming over me like this has got to happen. And I was getting nervous, like, are they gonna do it or are they not gonna do it? And then, you know, my Mia Kanye said, okay, it's gonna, and his house's gonna work and this gonna blah blah. And uh, and it was perfect. It was perfect timing. So, you know, I I can't express enough, and this is not this is authentically my perception on all this. This is not a promotion, I'm not getting paid, it's not anything about that. It is the honest truth for small business people, for small manufacturers, mid-sized manufacturers, getting a group of people that have been in the industry from the different perspectives that you all have been in is so, so valuable in that it's learning. We can't know it all, and you can't know it all. But what we bring together, what we're learning together, and what we again, it goes back. We've got this new tagline that we keep saying, better together, because that's how we feel. Like with created hardwood, we're better together. And I want to say this too. Our acquisition was not about, and when I say this, I'm not sliding the private equity companies out there. I'm not trying to slide the paper companies. You know, that's a strategy, a different type of strategy. It's not our strategy. Our strategy, creatives and mantras, was like we're both doing something that has very similar values. We after we got to know each other, we saw that our our cultures were very much the same in so many ways. This made sense to bring something exciting together. Yes, of course, we all want to have the bottom line look healthy. Of course we do. Sure.

Sid: 

That's important.

Susan:  

Yes, of course it is. But that wasn't the focus of what we were doing. That's not the focus of this acquisition. It's how we can do this better together. And that 100% involves getting people that are experts to help you along the way. And that's what you all have done to me and my team. And it helped us prepare for this big thing. You know, it's not an HI buy and steel case, but it's a it's as big to us personally as that is to the world, if that makes sense. And having the guidance. And the other thing too, now that we've gotten, we're we've become friends.

Sid: 

Yeah.

Susan:  

That's the other thing that happens. And I know that you want me to succeed, you want mantra to succeed, you want us to succeed. And having that kind of support is so that you can't put a dollar sign on that. That's just that's just such a benefit to all of us being in this industry. And and as you mentioned a couple of times, rising together.

Sid: 

Yeah. A tide lifts all ships.

Susan:  

Yes.

Sid: 

Let's work together and let's lift our industry. Let's lift the small businesses in our industry. So first off, Susan, I just want to say thank you for those very kind words. You know, you are a beta test, right? To see if we could do this, if we could pull this together. Um you also set the bar really high. Really high. But let's be very clear. As much as we accept the gratitude that you've given to us today, you did all the heavy work. You and your team did all the heavy things. You're the ones that dug the and we've got to get the foundation. Listen to us, took some of our guidance, some of our feedback and proved that support. That's what a guide is supposed to do, right? Provide that feedback. But you and your team did have to prove that when you really focus on building that foundation, something can happen for you and for your business. And it's not a one-and-done, it's not a one-year plan, it's a plan that could last you for at least five years. But as of every plan, you have to once a year review it, you've got to make changes to it because your business changes, right? So you've got to add to it. Um, I think that if you could, as we wrap up for an I'll come to Michelle and

Final Advice And Where To Go Next

Sid: 

then I'll give you the last word. Michelle, to the business owner that's listening to this today, that's thinking about, I really need a better foundation, I need a better plan. What's one piece of advice or one takeaway that you would say to that business owner today?

Michelle: 

I would encourage the business owner to think about what it is that is on their plate that doesn't have to be on their plate, that they could give to someone else in the company, outsource, get outside help on, even if it's strategic thinking, right? Like whatever it is that is has you stuck, right? I think we get stuck at different places. So whatever it is that has you stuck, think about how you could get unstuck.

Sid: 

I love that. Susan, what's the one piece of advice you'd give to the business owner listening today that's in your shoes, or maybe a little bit behind you or a little bit ahead of you? What's the advice you'd give them?

Susan:  

Well, I think it's important to note you're not alone. You're not alone and you're not behind. It's something that you've said several times to me, said over the time that we've worked. And, you know, hearing that, knowing that, okay, I'm not behind, I'm not because I think every business owner feels they're behind. Feels like, oh my gosh, I'm not doing enough, I'm not doing enough. And just getting that settled time to really sit back and look at what is it you want and how can you get there. And a lot of times you're gonna find you need other people to help you get there. And that's okay. That is not only is it okay, super important.

Sid: 

Yeah, it is. I can't thank you, ladies, enough for being here today. Of course, I get to hang out with Michelle all the time, and I see Susan at least once a month. So it's so much fun hanging out with you in this environment, being able to have this conversation again, Susan. You your team really did all the heavy lifting.

Sponsor:  

We'd like to thank our community bronze sponsors, Catalyst Consulting Group, Greek Seek, and Staffing Plus.

Outro:

If today's conversation resonates with you, maybe the takeaway is that you're not behind. You're not alone, and you don't have to figure it out all by yourself. Sometimes the biggest growth opportunity isn't another tactic, it's building the right foundation that we talked about so much. And if you'd like to learn more about the collaborative network or our business growth accelerator, we'd love to continue this conversation with you, and you can do that by visiting thecollaborative.network. And thank you all so much for joining me today. Go out there and make today great, and we will see you in the next episode. Take care, everyone.