Intro: 

200 episodes, hundreds of conversations, countless ideas shared, challenged, and carried back into the businesses across our industry. But the trend report has never really been about the number of episodes, or even about me. It's always been about the people listening, learning, and sharing the show and joining the conversation. So for episode 200, I'm doing something a little bit different. I've invited four loyal listeners to take the mic, bring the topics they believe our industry needs to discuss, and join me for one honest, unfiltered conversation about relationships, respect, the way we sell, and how we invest in the next generation. This is episode 200. And today we're celebrating the people who make it all possible.

Sponsor: 

We'd like to thank our presenting sponsors, Avanto, services and software that streamline how you operate and the collaborative network, a platform where leaders in the contract interiors industry unite.

Avanto Ad: 

This episode is brought to you in part by Avanto, the workflow automation software built exclusively for the commercial furniture industry. Avanto automates the full quote to cash cycle for manufacturers, dealers, rep groups, and installers. Quoting, order entry, AP processing, PDF to SIF conversion, and more without replacing your existing systems. Over 130 companies trust Avanto to run their operations. Learn more at goavanto.com.

The Collaborative Network Ad: 

What's one decision that's been keeping you up at night? Before you make it, imagine sitting around the table with five experienced executives who have faced similar challenges and are invested in helping you succeed. That's exactly what happens every month inside the collaborative network. Honest conversations, practical insights, trusted peers. Because leadership isn't about having all the answers, it's about having the right people in your corner. Check us out at thecollaborative.network.

Sid: 

Welcome back or welcome to the Trend Report, your inside look at the people, products, and ideas shaping the future of workplace design. I'm your host, Sid Meadows, and I am so glad that you've joined me for today's special episode. You know, when I started the Trend Report, I never imagined that one day I would say, Welcome to episode 200. I couldn't have predicted the conversations that we would have, the people that I would meet, or the community that would form around this show. This milestone belongs to each and every one of you, and each and every person who has ever pressed to play, shared an episode, sent me a message, recommended a guest, or stopped me at an industry event to talk about something they heard on the show. That's why I wanted this episode to be different. Instead of talking about the listeners, I wanted to bring some of them into the conversation. Each of today's guests has been a loyal supporter of the show, and each brings a different perspective from across the industry. They've also each brought a topic that they believe deserves an honest conversation. So again, this is no formal interview, no rehearsed answers, just five people, five friends who care about this industry and want to see it become better. Thank you all for being here. So Leah, would you start us off and just take a moment and introduce yourself, please?

Leah: 

Hi, I'm Leah Eckhoff. I work for Facility Design Marketing. We are an independent rep group and I cover the state of Oklahoma for our group.

Sid: 

I'm so glad you're here. Chris, please take it away.

Chris: 

Thank you, Sid. I'm Chris Ford, uh business development manager with Office Essentials in the Kansas City market. We're a commercial furniture dealer.

Sid: 

Sean?

Shawn:

I am Shawn Popovich, regional sales director with 3H Furniture, uh Laminet Office Furniture Manufacturer, located all the way up here in Canada.

Sid: 

We have to let the northern part of North America represent in the show today.

Shawn:

Yeah, exactly. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Glad you need me. I'm here to fill out the bunch. I appreciate that.

Sid: 

Thank you. And the last but definitely not least, guest that is with us today, uh, Kristen, has been listening, I think, since episode number one. It's always messaging me about the show and things of that nature. So, Kristen, please take a moment and introduce yourself.

Kristen: 

Hi, I'm Kristen Benavides. I am a business development manager for TechNeon, covering Austin, San Antonio, and South Texas. And I am an avid listener. I love learning more about different perspectives and people in our industry that I can share with my colleagues.

Sid: 

Yeah, so good. So

What We Owe Each Other In Sales

Sid: 

good. All right. So we're going to get this party started. We're going to uh go uh two questions, and we're gonna have a little break to do something different, and then we'll have two more questions. Chris, I have you at the top of my list in my little run of show here. So why don't you kick us off with your topic or your question that you wanted to bring to the group?

Chris: 

I appreciate that. So being in sales and always cold calling or reaching out to new clients, I have a perspective that I think is a little bit different. And there's never a week where something doesn't come up and things change at the last minute, somebody cancels, you have a boss coming in, you need a last-minute appointment, right? So oftentimes in the past, at least, I've noticed line reps such as Leah are bringing in a top-level executive and they need a last-minute appointment, just like I do sometimes. And there's a frantic call the day before, Chris, can you meet me tomorrow? And the answer is yes. And the reason for that is how in the world would I treat that situation any different than what I expect in my professional role? And it's it goes back to I think what your show is about, Sid, which is the community of commercial interiors. And we all get better when we help one another.

Sid: 

I absolutely agree with you. So, Chris, format in a question. What's the question you'd like the group to respond to?

Chris: 

Ah, my apologies.

Sid: 

No, no, no apologies, man.

Chris: 

Give me a second.

Sid: 

No, so one of the when I looked at what you sent me, Chris, the one of the the question that came up for me was what do we owe one another as sales professionals? So it's really about how can we support each other, right? Because what you're describing is as a dealer, you get uh your manufacturer rep like Leah reaching in saying, Hey, my regional from Canada, Sean's coming in and he's driving me crazy about having meetings. So can we meet with you? And Chris, what you're saying is yes. So it's a really great question is like, how do we support one another? So since I was picking on you first, Leah, Chris kind of started that. How would you respond to that question? Or what are your thoughts about that?

Leah: 

I love the fact that you were willing to, you know, you saw the urgent need. Obviously, we don't ever want to put that pressure on you to, you know, accept an invitation the next day, but you were willing to jump on it and you understand it. So yes, and there is there's pressure from so many different levels of, you know, getting all these meetings, but and oftentimes it's you know somebody else's schedule working around. And we're gracious to you that you accepted the invitation. And we understand that when we do go in, is we're not gonna take up an hour, hour and a half of your time. You know, we'll we'll leave the conversation to where it needs to go. But you know, we we do want to be respectful of that. And I think that's it's good understanding on everyone's part that you know we're all trying to make a sell in this world and we're trying to help you make sales just like you're trying to make us help us make sales. So I think it's just having that understanding in the market that everybody is on the same goal.

Sid: 

So, Leah, I have a follow-up question for you. So, what happens when they say no?

Leah: 

Ooh, yeah, it is, I mean, it hurts a little bit when somebody says no to your question, but you just kind of have to be, you know, cognizant of that you're not the only person trying to get on their calendar. I mean, they've got people, and if it isn't just furniture, if you're actually asking an A and D person, you're having to think like they've got flooring and they've got, you know, their paint reps and all the other people coming at them, and you just have to say, okay, I appreciate it. I'll definitely reach out, you know, when I have a little bit more time in the schedule again.

Sid: 

Yeah.

Leah: 

And you move on to hopefully another customer that is has a little bit more flexibility in their schedule.

Sid: 

Okay. So, Shawn, as a regional that travels into market and is trying to do exactly what Chris is talking about, get in front of people. How would you respond to this question about how we can support each other as salespeople?

Shawn:

My gosh, hot topic. And I won't jump ahead to my topic and question, but it's very related and I am very passionate about this. So I appreciate you bringing it up, Chris. And it this could go many different ways. And I want to start by just saying the amount of effort on everyone's part, like we have our point of view from a regional, and then the reps, like, hey, get meetings and get this, and then to the dealer, and that is tough. And I'm not the only regional out there, and our our our reps have mini lines as well. So it's you know, everyone I think has to step back and first understand where everyone is coming from, you know, and put their put yourselves in their shoes. And you know, to Chris, the dealer side, when I think about it, I always want to come with the lens of how am I gonna provide value and how am I gonna set them up for success. And again, it could take this many ways, but I think number one, it just starts with alignment on what that visit is about. I think that's something that is missed once in a while. And that's part of the slowing down part. And we all move a mile a minute. And I don't think the furniture industry coined this term, but when I joined the dealer 15 years ago, it's the first time I heard it, and it was path of least resistance. And I think we all say that quite a bit, and maybe that comes into play when we're even doing market visits and trying to set up meetings and it's kind of lobbying things over the fence. And I have to own that on my side, and I think, what are we trying to get out of this visit? Who are we meeting? We're meeting Chris, different stages. Maybe I know, maybe I don't. You know, what what Chris, what do you want to focus on when I come in with Leah, for example? And yeah, I'll stop there and leave it open for the floor, but I think alignment and just slowing down and really making sure we understand what that visit and the outcome, desired outcome is shared is is is hugely important and sometimes sometimes missed.

Sid: 

I think the term alignment is really critical, is really important here. Like what is it that I remember, because I used to be a road warrior, right? And I remember coming into market and some of the reps below, I want you to go meet with this person. And it would, I mean, sometimes my question would be like, Why are we meeting with them? They don't do any business with us, we compete with them all the time. They're really not interested in selling our products. Explain to me why we're gonna take time to go meet with this person. And it it can be justified the around the opportunity. Maybe something happened with other products they were selling and the doors open. I'm all about it. But I always wanted to understand why we were going there so that I could understand how to tailor what I wanted to talk about, whether it was in a group setting or an individual setting, it was important to understand the the why behind it. So alignments are really, really great there. Kristen, wrap us up with this question and what would you add to this? Because you've got a completely different perspective today.

Kristen: 

For sure. Yeah. So I've actually been on both sides of that situation as a regional and as an independent rep. And I'm a little bit, I call it a fast motor. Some people might call it high strong. But if I have someone coming in, I wanted to have a full day. But like you guys were saying, I want it to be meaningful and focused because you can have a big sales meeting and spend hundreds of dollars on food and swag and all of that. But for what, you know, like you said, Sid, if it's if it's not someone who's aligned with what you're doing and they're just gonna take your lunch and listen to your pitch and then, you know, not not really making a connection there, it's a waste of everybody's time and resources. And so sometimes when a meeting falls through and you're having to, you know, ad lib for lack of a better word, and you know, and find some sometimes those turn into the best appointments because it might just be a friend in the industry, you know, that's like, hey, can you go to lunch? Like I my schedule fell apart. Can you meet me for lunch? And, you know, maybe the regional from out of town, you know, really connects with them and you just, you know, have a really meaningful conversation and uncover some opportunities. And so sometimes, you know, and I think about that too. Some days when things just go wrong, maybe you have a flat tire and you have to cancel something. This actually happened to me. I had a lunch scheduled with a new contact and I had a flat tire, and I called him and I was like, I'm so sorry, but I'm literally sitting at the tire place, you know, I'm totally flanking on you. And it really kind of got us off on a good footing because it was like, remember that time we were supposed to meet and I totally ghosted you? Like, I'm so sorry. Uh it just it makes you human, you know, or my kid is sick, or whatever it is. You just kind of have to roll with it and make the best of it.

Sid: 

Life happens to all of us. None of us are immune from life happening to us, whether it's a flat tire, kid getting sick, you know, whatever it is, it's just it's just part of life. And I think this to me kind

Relationships And Coopetition With Competitors

Sid: 

of highlights a little bit about the importance of relationships in our industry. We always talk about how this is a relationship-driven industry. But how do you think that relationships impact this conversation? Like being sure that we're supporting each other, because you know, Chris, uh your competitor across town probably doesn't want to have a conversation with you, right? Which I completely disagree with. But how can relationships strengthen this conversation around how can we help each other as sales professionals? Or how how should they? Let's make change the phrasing of it. Who would like to jump in?

Chris: 

Yeah, I'm happy to jump in on that. So I've certainly heard you talk about that through the years. And uh I network a fair amount here in town, and it's it's very competitive to say the least. There's a lot of dealers. I I never shy away from trying to connect with my competitors. There's no downside to it. We're not going to share our intimate details about each client and give away the farm on that front. But if you can collaborate and talk about the challenges and the frustrations that we all deal with, you might just find an answer that helps you get past that.

Sid: 

Well, you also never know where somebody's next step may be. You never know where somebody's next step is going to be. And there's just so much value in relationships. And what's the word that Chris was stepping around that I say all the time? I'm just curious if any of you remember it.

Kristen: 

Co uh coopetition. Yes. Can I win a prize? Yes, you do win a prize.

Sid: 

Coopetition. I believe that we should work together. Uh as an industry, we should work together. We should uplift each other. There's no reason that Kristen can't work with one of her quote-unquote competitive colleagues across town to do something that helps the design community or helps the dealer community or helps another manufacturer. So I mean, I just I believe there are multiple ways. But anybody else like to respond to that question that the role of relationship plays? That was Kristen.

Kristen: 

I was just gonna say I'm very involved in my local IDA, and I know Leah is too, but it is all about working with, and at this point, a lot of them are my competitors, you know, but we've known each other for a long time and we work together, you know, to put together meaningful events to support the design community. And a lot of us, you know, will recommend each other for jobs if something comes available. Because I think when you volunteer with someone, you get to see how they work, how you know, if they're on time, if they're dependable, you know, you get to learn a lot about someone in that atmosphere. And I think, you know, having someone step up for me and say, yeah, she's great. You should hire her, that means everything to me. And so, you know, just the networking and collaborating in a in a volunteer position like that, I think is a great way to work with competitors.

Sid: 

Yeah, I totally agree. And it goes back to what I said a minute ago about, you know, you never know where somebody's next step's gonna be. Because how many of you have only had one job or in the same job when you started in our industry? You guys see all the hands raising. Not a single one went up because it's so rare for that to happen. And to Chris's point, your next job may come from a relationship you built with a competitor. Right? Right, Sean, take it away.

Shawn:

I just wanted to stress, yeah, it was great that topic came up because the importance of it. I come from a dealer background. That's how I got into the industry unintentionally, like most of us. And that was in the Toronto market, networked a lot, but probably didn't share as much with them as as we probably could have. But now in this role as a regional, it's just underrated the conversations I can have with other regionals and what you get out of those. And sometimes it's very organic. I mean, in it, I'm in a in a market for an event, or a rep has you know multiple lines and they're now at compete, and we're just going to presentations or meetings together. And the the stuff that comes out of those conversations with those other regionals has been incredible. We all do so much things differently, and we can all learn best practices from other manufacturers and whatnot. Like it's just it's so so strong. Yep. And it's something I need to do more. And kudos to you, Sid, now that I came on here to pump you know your collaboration network up. But I think you guys are taking hold of that along with some others and just trying to connect people more. And it's very important in our industry and to evolve those relationships. So I think it's great.

Sid: 

Thank you for that. All right, Leah. Wrap us up.

Leah: 

So mine's more of a question of like, how do designers that are in the same field, like AD designers or even furniture dealer designers, actually meet each other when they're not in groups like IIDA? Because I've run into when we have our emerging leaders groups, a lot of these young designers or designers that are in these firms, they don't actually know designers at other firms. They really don't until they start getting IIDA groups. So they don't have the chance to collaborate and learn from one another, or, you know, whether this is good or bad, learn what benefits or things that other firms might offer that their firm isn't. Um, you know, we've had one in the past where a firm didn't offer a maternity leave program and other firms were like, oh, but ours does. And everybody's eyes were kind of open, whether that's good or bad. There's really unless they're in like an INDA group or some local group, there's really no collaboration between them. And I feel like that's I don't know how to change that.

Sid: 

So this is the question you want to pose to the group, right?

Leah: 5

No, this was just following up and like working with yeah. Got it.

Sid: 

Got it.

Leah: 

So no, that was just a more of a question of how do they connect if they're not in a group like IIDA.

Leah: 

So what do you guys think? How do you think that uh designers could meet each other or should meet each other besides IIDA if they don't have that option?

Sid: 

I think this is actually bigger than just designers too. Go ahead, Kristen.

Kristen: 

Yeah, one thing that I've seen is if you s like if you I live in San Antonio and people that went to design school in San Antonio and stayed there to work, they're pretty tight. But I can see how if you move to a different city and you don't really know people there, that that would be a challenge. And especially if you're in a smaller firm or a smaller dealership and there's only maybe two or three of you, it can be very lonely and isolating. And, you know, I would just encourage people and a lot of a lot of people that that are not extroverts, you know, they're like, I don't really want to go to a happy hour, I don't want to go, you know, make a flower arrangement. And I get it because I'm an introvert extrovert. The last thing I want to do after work is, you know, go have a drink with strangers. But it's a really great way, you know, just force yourself. If you can just meet a couple of people that will connect you to that group, you know, I just encourage people to kind of get outside of your comfort zone and just try it anyway.

Sid: 

See, I see San Antonio as a very much transient city because of the bases that are there. People coming in, people coming out. And a designer might be married to somebody in the military, they move there for a couple of years and they don't know anybody, and they go to work at a dealership, and now they all they know is what their dealership is. So an idea that I might add to this is for those of us that have been around a while, I think we own a bit of the responsibility around this. So, like, Sean, you go into a market to work, you could say to your local rep, let's have a new designer gathering. Tell your rep, go find a new designer at three different dealerships or maybe three two dealerships and two design firms that are new, and let's go have a dinner. Let's just go have fun. Let's meet each other. This is networking, not selling. We're not going to talk about 3.8s. I'm not going to pitch our latest quick tip program and new finishes, blah, blah, blah. Just go and talk about things, meet each other, talk about the industry, talk about their jobs, what they love about their jobs, talk about the city that they're in and what have they learned about the city and what are fun things to do, like really foster that relationship. And I think that's also kind of to the original question that Chris asked, that's also a way to fill an open gap when a sales leader comes into a marketplace and you're looking for appointments.

Shawn:

Example.

Sid: 

Because I think we always think we have to be telling. I don't think we have to be telling that we just build relationships. Would anybody else like to respond to Leah's question? Okay, we're going to move on then. Chris, that was a great question. Thank you for

Do Traditional Market Visits Still Work

Sid: 

bringing it to the group today. And Sean, we're going to come to you because I think yours ties into Chris's. So start us off, man.

Shawn:

Definitely ties into it. And it also ties into a conversation we had, Sid, on the call. And I know you mentioned you were talking to someone. I don't know if it was a regional or who, but someone in the industry that was going into market. And I'm paraphrasing here, obviously, but it was something around, you know, maybe we used to get a half an hour, an hour in front of people. And those were the meetings were getting condensed to potentially 15 minutes. But the thing that caught my ears when you were going through that was even taking a step forward there almost, and we're almost getting forced to do one-on-one meeting. And one example was, and it's with the top seller per se. And that's where I think I chimed in. I'm like, ooh, like, tell me more. I love that. And where I'm going with that is just I think in an industry that has a default of what I'll call the show-up and throw up, and you get in, and it's it's it's very related to what we were just talking about. But a rep book in a meeting with someone that's just saying yes and not being aligned, and you get in like different stages and different relationships, too. So I get that. And but example, going in and hey, I'm Sean. This is about us. Here's some slides about our company, here's what's new, here's a product, product pitch, and thanks, thanks for your time, onto the next. And I just think there has to be a better way, you know, better way to build those relationships and communicate and just have conversations. So my question that stems from that is do traditional market visits still work? And by traditional market visits, it's and I know it's not every visit, but taking that that lens of the traditional market visit being, I'm gonna go in, someone on the dealer design side saying, Do you need to connect? And you say yeah, and you plug in your computer and you get all these slides ready, and then you have a pretty one one-sided conversation or pitch and leave. That's that's what I mean by that. And I just thought it's such a good opportunity to ask that question because it's something I think about on the daily when I have a dealer, I have a multi-line rep, you have you Sid and then Kristen, who's been multi-line and regional and at a manufacturer. So I'd love to hear from you all four of you and your lens.

Sid: 

This is a really great question, too, by the way. And you know, what was happening in our in our sales leadership group, it came up at the Collaborative Network, it came up that the regionals were the sales leaders and even their regionals were going into marketplace. And what were planned to be three-day trips were consolidated to a one-day trip. And what they thought were gonna be dealer lunch and learns and presentations of A and D firms turned into one day uh one-on-one. So and because the dealers are saying, well, you can't come in for six more months. If you do come in, you're only gonna get 15 minutes. That's that's the message we hear from the design firms a lot. Now the dealer community is starting to say that as well. So it's very interesting. And so that's kind of where this is coming from. So Kristen, what do you think? Do traditional market visits still work?

Kristen: 

I have several thoughts about that. Number one, I would say yes, they can work, but I think that as the regional, as the VP of sales, that it's on you to be very intentional with that rep and not just like, hey, I'm coming in, you know, September 3rd, get some meetings. You know, like what do you think would be the best use of my time? Remember, here's where we went last time, whatever happened with that, you know, let's follow up and just be very focused and intentional. I don't want to waste your time, I don't want to waste anybody. Like, what do you think we should do? And then I agree about that it's becoming more one-on-one. And what I'm seeing is that within a dealership and within within a design firm, not everybody's there all day, every day. And so finding out like when is your all hands day? Usually, like every Tuesday, all salespeople are there, or we have an all hands call or something like that. So can I come that day? Would that make sense? Or can I jump on your Zoom call, you know, for 15 minutes and just kind of go over what's new? You plug into what they're already doing instead of like, well, he's gonna be here on a Friday, so we got to do it at nine o'clock Friday. Adapt to their schedule if you can, and then just as the regional or the VP that's coming in, you know, just be very intentional and lean on the rep in the market and trust them that they know better than you do. And I don't mean for that to sound aggressive, but they're there every day and they're the feet on the street and they know who the key players are.

Sid: 

You're not wrong with that. You are not wrong with that statement at all. Lean on the local market reps to understand where and what you should be doing because you know the market better than any regional or any sales leader that wants to pop in and spend three days with you. They may not come back for a year. You know the market better. You got to lean on the market expert for this, right?

Kristen: 

What projects are coming up? You know, is this designed from working on healthcare 

 

Sid: 

So Crystal Lucero talked about that in her episode when I uh it was a I forget which one is, we'll drop it in the show notes. But um she said, do your homework. No, she goes, we do healthcare and something else and something else. She goes, if you're coming in to see me about a product that we don't work on projects, I don't want to see you. Like, know your audience, right? That's so very important. Okay. Chris, how would you respond as the dealer? Because you're the one that a lot of these groups want to see when they come into marketplace. So, how would you respond to do traditional market visits actually work?

Chris: 28:14

I think they do from my perspective, and I enjoy them. So I can think of two manufacturers right off the top of my head, one from a few years back and one from more recent, that uh I wouldn't have considered or used or thought about unless I met the people. So it's a it is a people business. The connection is important, in my opinion, at least for me. And so there's that aspect. But I learned a lot more about the product than I ever would have, most likely being on the website or even a virtual meeting like this. And so, yeah, they're they're very top of mind products going forward.

Sid: 

So I'm not trying to promote this, but if Sean comes into your market and wants to meet with you and you don't know three eights, what is it you want to know from Sean? What is it you want to hear from the person coming in that's having a one-on-one with you?

Chris: 

I want to know the people and the the processes behind the product. I can see the product online, I can ask for samples. To me, it's we're all gonna run into some challenge or issue. That's not what this industry is based on, but there is going to be that moment that we need to know how we work together and what happens. And I love learning the gritty part of that.

Sid: 

So, what he said, Sean, was I'm gonna reframe it, is you positioned your question as the traditional show up and throw up. Chris is saying, don't show up and throw up. Be intentional. Talk to me about the company, talk to me about the people behind the company, talk to me about how you solve problems. Don't open up your pitch deck and go through every product line that you have to offer. Did I say that right, Chris? Absolutely.

Kristen: 

And something you say a lot, Sid is it's not about the product. Yeah, I can look on your website and see what the product is. And I'm guessing, Chris, it might be helpful if Sean would share with you how are we different than you know what you might see on the web? Like we can't maybe explain on the website what the differentiators are. You know, why would what would be compelling for you to use my manufacturer instead of what you're currently using?

Sid: 

Yeah, I might if I have Chris, I might even ask the question, Sean, why do I want to work with you? What is it about your organization that makes you different? Why would I want to specify your product?

Shawn:

Yeah. And see, I'll I'll I'll chime in here too, because I love all that. And I think it's all part of it. And you touched on one, I'll touch on Kristen. Like I think it's on us, on me. You know, I like to make sure it is intentional. That's a great word to use there. And to Chris's point, it is about people and probably not as much product. Uh listening to Crystal's pod, Sid, the one you mentioned. And, you know, it's all over. I I wouldn't listen to a ton of pods that I might have missed or I've re-listened to some, and it's all saying the same stuff, like relationships, be curious, ask questions. And the thing I that I'm not saying this is a challenge, but this is the thing that I I kind of go back and forth on. And it's what you just said, Sid, is really good question. What makes you different? I think you you framed it as. And I've had reps, you know, when we're moving a mile a minute, I'm like, just tell them, tell them why three agents are best. Yeah. If only it was that easy, eh? And yeah, and I guess I I'm looking at it from, you know, we're all sellers here. And and one thing I'll say, I think in our industry, you don't get snake oil salesmen. Like we're all really trying to help people, we're very consultative. But the show up and throw up and putting the PowerPoint up, I just it doesn't promote as much conversation, depending on the group size. And that whole tell us what makes you greater why you're different, that's really hard when I don't know about your business. And when you think about any sales book or any, you know, sales, like I'll call sales book or sales mentor, it's very rare they're gonna say, hey, your first meeting, go in and talk about you, you know, whip up three slides about the company, how to what's your process because it's very important for a dealer. I get it. What makes you different? Obviously, that's important, but you can't do that without learning about someone else. And that's where it's that balance. And and and I'll I'll there's so many examples you can use, but it's that have we all seen the movie Wolf of Wall Street? Yep. Here for the most part, and there's that scene, sell me this pen. That's what it just reminded me of. Tell me why you're great. And I think that I forget the actual scene, like I get it, but the point of that is it's like a lot of people just go reactive and like, well, it's a black pen and the the ink's gonna last this long and and this and that, and the guy's just sitting there. And the best question, it's like, why do you need a pen? Yeah, you know, it's like what do you use it for? And that's what that's kind of what I get at, and that's what I feel is missing sometimes. So it's when I go into the market, I want to bring value. And if it is, say, hey, it's a new product launch, tell us all about it, all for it, right? I mean, that's intentional, that's alignment. And that's but that's the battle when I get to traditional market visits. And you know, we have someone set it with the reps, they own the relationships, they know the market, and 100% we hire them to be our sales reps. They're out there talking about 3H every day, hopefully talking about the product every day. You know, so when I come in, I think there's such value in how do I put my position, how do I get in more positions to actually listen and observe. And I can really be the voice, I should be the voice of that market for our reps, dealers, designers, whoever, to bring that back to our company and you know, talk about changes, what's working, what's not, what are the pain points. So that's where I think it's just getting more. I'd love to be able to get more in those positions where conversations happen and you can ask really good questions and and build those relationships because you know, product dumps, time and place. And that's like that's the thing. There is a time and place for them, but product dumps, I guess they can create the awareness a bit on a small scale, maybe because someone else is gonna do the exact same thing I'm doing the very next day from another manufacturer that I might be forgotten about. But no, the product dumps can create awareness, but I just feel the conversations create movement, and that's where we all need to go.

Sid: 

I like that conversations create movement. I like that. All right, Leah, wrap us up on this topic.

Leah: 

Okay, I I'm I differ. I think traditionals can work with certain people in certain groups, but you have to get thinking in a new light in certain other groups. Like I recently had a regional come into town, and there were people that we were just not going to be able to get into because their schedule wouldn't allow it. But and instead we did a happy hour where we had product for them to come try out that maybe they don't get to sit in all the time. And we had, you know, happy hour drinks and food, and we had it at a fun spot. But then we get in CRE people and we got in designers and we got in a few architects with those designers, and it brought in a whole group or you know, two or three key people from different places that we wouldn't have been able to touch in the two days he was in town, um, you know, getting all these different people in. So I think that can help too when you're that's a stellar idea, by the way.

Sid: 

That is a stellar idea. Have a happy hour at a location with product samples and invite dealers, corporate real estate, A and D, and users. That's a stellar idea.

Leah: 

Yeah, it just helped making sure that we got the most bang for our buck with you know everything that when he was in town, because I mean there were so many places I wanted to take him, but we just couldn't fit it in the schedule. And everybody loves to see product and test it out. It was really great stuff that the they had great feedback on it. But then we also just had great conversations and ended up being that all the chairs were sitting off to the side for so long because people were just chatting with each other and helping build those relationships within that. And then, you know, some people were talking about how they had used it on this project, and somebody got enlightened. And hey, there's they're building and they're they're repping the product for you, and you're not even having to say anything. So the designers were helping me.

Shawn:

That's great. That's a really good interest. Physical product is so important too, I think, in our industry. And if you easier said than done sometimes, also very easy if you're doing stools versus we sell a lot of private offices, it is a challenge for us. It's you know, it's a little harder. Laminate case goods. So, but I think that is such a valuable thing people want to touch and feel, and that can create those conversations.

Leah: 

Maybe do a pop-up roadshow where you have, you know, you you bring in a demo for it and you have it set up at you know one place and one dealer holds the pop-up for you, and you invite all the AD people in for that. Instead of doing five meetings in one day, you just have everybody come in and you cater lunch and then you have a happy hour maybe later for a different group. I don't know. There's there's lots of opportunities to change. So much. Yeah.

Shawn:

And we're all doing it for the most part. I want to frame it. I just I it's still, you know, it's just that medium, and I think we can all help each other, but it's uh it's really on someone like me to help to help feed that as well.

Leah: 

There's a counterpart, and Sid, you've had him on your show before, but Christian Jones out in San Francisco talked about it before, and he and I've talked about his wife, she has her own organic ship. Yeah, they have their own vegetables and all these things that they grow, organic stuff. And so they do like a fruit stand and uh or like a farmer's market setup, and they combine that with furniture. And designers love that. And it was just it was a whole new eye-opening experience talking to him at some of our other events that we've done. And it's it's just so fun to pull in different areas, ideas from other people.

Sid: 

That's part of why we get groups together to share our ideas and share our best practices to help each other. That's a core of co-opetition, right? Helping each other. And what you just uh described about the fruit stand and also the happy hour with the furniture there, I would call that selling furniture without selling furniture. Right. And that's uh you're but you're intensely building relationships, you're also facilitating the building of relationships between other people. Two designers are sitting over there talking about each other and whatever. I mean, that's just it's yeah, that's really good stuff. All right, so a great question, and Chris, you great questions as well.

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Saying The Awkward Thing Out Loud

Sid: 

We've got two more to get to. So, Kristen, why don't you take it and tell us what is it, the topic or the question that you brought to be for the group?

Kristen: 

Yeah, so my question, and uh it's a little bit multifaceted, but I'm gonna say, how do we create more honest conversations between reps, dealers, and design firms? And what I mean by that is like, let's say the awkward things out loud, you know, like what's happening behind the scenes? Why are you specifying what you're specifying? If we're friends, you like me, I like you, but you're not really using my product. What's going on there? You know, like we said earlier, am I doing healthcare and you don't do healthcare? And you wish I would pick up on that clue? Or, you know, are you getting a spiff? Are you getting a trip? Is am I I don't have the symbols that you need? Like what is really going on? Like, let's just say the awkward thing out loud. And if if it's not a good fit, then we'll still be friends and I'll move on down the road. But let's not waste each other's time. So you know, what can we what are we not saying out loud? How how can we have those honest conversations? Maybe have you had an honest conversation where you were like, oh, duh, I should have known that. Maybe, you know, share an experience or you know, a struggle that you've had in that kind of arena.

Sid: 

Chris, do you have thoughts on this?

Chris: 

My first thought is that you kind of touched on it, Kristen, where you said, you know, just the awkward and the honest. I think that's a great starting point. I don't know how much quicker you can get to that. Uh, from my perspective, I I think about me having a prospect that I want to do business with as the similar comparison. I'm gonna stay in touch. We're not gonna work together. That's fine. I appreciate there's one person in particular that I've stayed in touch with for, I'm embarrassed to say, about 10 years now. And we've never worked together in that entire time. But every time I get an email back that was very polite and it says, thank you, but we're we're all good here. And I think that's my favorite being shot down ever because no humanity, we don't want to be mean and cruel to or disappoint other. They don't want to disappoint you, is my takeaway, Kristen. And uh so they just don't tell you what's wrong. But I love that this guy will tell me, no, it's not gonna happen. I appreciate that. The honesty.

Sid: 

But have you thought about asking him why, Chris? Why is it that I can't do business with you? What's what is it that's preventing us?

Chris: 

They're set, they're specified. It's they're set on who they're using. It's you know, they're there's no reason, there's no reason to change.

Sid: 

Yeah, they have no reason to change. Or you haven't given them a reason to change.

Chris: 

Well, that's fair. Right? But I I just love the honesty. I appreciate that.

Kristen: 

I would have a follow-up question from the dealer perspective. I would maybe me as a rep asking you as a dealer, Chris, is there something maybe that reps typically don't understand about your process, about your loyalties, about you know, as a dealer, like I think it took me a long time, and I still maybe don't fully understand because I've never worked for a dealer. Like, you guys have to keep moving, and you're gonna do you follow the path of least resistance to get your client what they need, and you're gonna do what you know as long as it's working. And I, you know, similarly don't give you a compelling reason to change. But you know, I mean, is there a rep that's maybe just missing the mark? Like, you don't understand this is my software or this is my process, and and for me to stop what I'm doing and try to plug you into that and manually go through that just because I like you, that's not happening. I mean, I would love for someone to say that out loud to me, you know. Is that true? Like, do you does that ring true to you?

Chris: 

Well, my first thought for me personally, it's the connection, but right or wrong, I I feel like my world moves very fast sometimes. There are projects, obviously, that take longer and there's a buildup, but the really fast is where I live a lot, and there's some support people, reps or what have you that I need to move, I need them to move with me. And some will and some won't. And so I gravitate towards the ones that'll help me keep moving as fast as I feel like I need to move. And um, I don't know if that answers your question a hundred percent, but it starts with the relationship. Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Kristen: 

I I was just gonna say, I've had dealers say to me, part of the reason I reach out to you is because I know you're gonna get right back to me with an accurate answer. Or even if it's, I don't have that, sorry, you know, move on. And, you know, they say sometimes I send off an email to someone and I just get this feeling of not going to hear back from them. Or if I do, it's going to be five days from now based on prior experience, right? Or like I'm going to reach out to them because I know they're on it, they'll get right back to me. So, like you're saying, I just need someone who can move as fast as I need to move and get me the accurate information and and you set uh a reputation for yourself of either, you know, being there for the people that you're supporting, or eh, you know, maybe I'll get back to you and maybe I won't, and maybe it'll be wrong. You know, that's even worse. And so, no, that's helpful.

Sid: 

Okay, Leah, how would you respond to Kristen's question about how do we have more honest conversations?

Leah: 

It's hard because nobody wants to hear rejection. So that is like we have to get over ourselves in that realm because yeah, we're not like there are standardizations in the field that unfortunately some people have gotten. And it's gonna take somebody else maybe screwing up on a project or not answering emails or something just going wrong on somebody else's part, unfortunately, that it might give you the shot and staying friendly with them and having those good conversations and just reminding them they're that you're always there for them is is always gonna come back in their mind of okay, you know what, let's give them a shot because they have a similar product or they have something that I've been keeping my eye on, but we just didn't have a chance to put it in there. But when they do come back and say, Oh yeah, they're that product over there standardized in the field, and you're just gonna have to say, okay, I'll I'll remember that. And then I'm gonna keep coming back and reminding them that maybe it's a little bit cheaper now or whatever it is. But yes, having having those hard conversations is it does feel like rejection in your face, especially when they do say it to your face. But yeah, yeah. And it's getting easier, I think, with some of the designers that are coming up in the field because they don't have they don't beat around the bush when they tell you things. But some of these designers, they're just gonna come out and say, like, yeah, I I liked that one over there better. You know, it had a color that I liked better, or whatever the, you know, the thing is. But there's a lot of younger designers these days that are not gonna beat around the bush and they sometimes don't hold loyalty to people. They just saw what they saw and they're moving on with it because they're being told they need to get 65% docs done and they're pushing. So there is there's that too.

Sid: 

So there's also this concept of I'd rather know that you don't want to sell my product so I don't waste my time with you. Like just tell me and let me move on. And yes, none of us like to be rejected, but sometimes rejection is a blessing. When you think about it like how many times do you reach out to the same person and the same person, the same person, and you get the same no result, no result, no comment, nothing back. You just listen, no response is a response. Let's be clear about that. And so I have a three-strike rule. If I reach out to you three times, uh, whether I want you to come and be a member of the collaborative or inviting you to be a member of the collaborative, or if something else, and you don't respond to me three times in a row, I'm done. I'm not wasting my time. That's rejection, it's a form of rejection. And I would rather know so I'm not wasting my time. Because that's our only commodity that we have is the time that we spend and how we spend our days, right? So I would rather you just say, hey, Sid, this isn't the right fit for me. Or, you know, I had an issue with this brand 20 years ago and I haven't gotten over it. And I just really don't want to do business with them. Okay, that's there's a lot there, but yeah.

Leah: 

You can't really write them off either because, like you said earlier, you never know where their next position is gonna be, or your next position's gonna be. You don't want to burn any of those bridges. So you speak friendly and you just know that you know what, if when we're both in this position right now, we may not be working together. I'll still invite y'all the social happy hours if you want to. Maybe I can change your mind, but you may be in a different place in six months to a year, and I may be as well. Who knows?

Sid: 

So well, and I'll follow up and then we're gonna go to Sean on this. Just because they told you no doesn't mean it's burned the bridge of the relationship between the two of you. It doesn't mean that. There's no reason that you should do that at all. And just, you know, okay, they don't want to work with you. Hey, I understand you don't want to work with me or work with our product lines. I appreciate it. Just know I'm here to support you any way that I can. Reach out to me anytime you need something, I'm happy to help you. 

 

Shawn:

Really good points. And um, I and I'll double down on what you said before going into a real short other uh point, but kind of work with the willing is the term I've heard. And I think it's so important. And by no means does that mean be reactive. No, you gotta go chase, you gotta hunt, and you gotta go try, but you know, you gotta get to a point, if you can get to a point where you realize it's not the right person. I know you and F3H were not the right company for everyone, the right manufacturer, but we gotta find our customers. So there is that. If um, if I heard the question you know correctly, because I think there's a lot to unpack there, it's like how to uncover awkward and honest feedback was was part of it. And I'll kind of double down on what a lot of us talked about on these topics and in these this conversation. It's like, are we putting ourselves in the right place to have those conversations? Like, are we are we putting us in the right situations to have those? And and quite simply, it comes down to asking questions. Like just we gotta ask. And we gotta it starts with relationships, it starts with putting situations to have those, and not to go back to just PowerPoint and that, because it's much more than that. That's not the main point of that, but you gotta get to those that dialogue and being willing to have those and just converse because so much comes out of that, whether that's with a rep or with a dealer. And I have one example, just thought of this like when this topic came up. Went to a dealer in a market, we were doing zero business with them. You know, it was new for me, knew a bit about them, but rep took us in. It's like, we'll we'll see. We're going in. Kristen, we bought the classic lunch and all that, spent some money. It's like, okay, what are we doing here? I had a presentation ready because I don't know anyone, right? And you're trying to align, and that's part of the thing, too. You go into these presentations and you don't know anyone, and that's the I want to get to know you. And if I don't ask questions, how do you get to know you? And then you might just fall flat. Anyways, kudos to the the group there. If I remember correctly, I had the title slide. You know, you're connected, you're waiting for them to come in, they're getting their food, says the title slide, go around the room, do some quick introductions. And I remember 30 minutes later, the title slide was still up. And I was so pumped for that. It's because it was just really good dialogue through the whole thing. And this one guy won't name names, but you know, it's that kind of tell me more, tell me more, tell me more type of thing. Because he said, I used to use you guys, and then something happened. And it was okay, tell me more, tell me more. Got down, like he hasn't used us for two to three years at that point, and it was a pricing thing. He said, Pricing's out of whack. And it's like, okay, we've made some changes in this, which not gonna go in, they'll make a long story short here, but went into discounts and what are you using and all that. And the fact that we were having a conversation, a lot of me asked, like, do you have something we can look at right now? You know, the classic question that actually creates some movement and gets you somewhere, and it said, Yeah. And I I wasn't 100% sure if it's gonna work, anyways. No joke, that rep our fiscals kind of split, but I'd look at in calendar. You're sold almost $500,000 a product for us. That's like starting with that. And I was that's not gonna happen a ton, and I don't have another example like that, but it's a real example, and I was pumped, and it was just it was very simple, but it was a very not saying it was awkward, but it was honest feedback we got to really quick saying this is why I won't use you, and I never will. Okay, I don't even think that's the truth. Let's figure this out together, and that's on us for you not sure making you aware of that. So, real example, and it was a good one.

Sid: 

So I appreciate you sharing that story, and I'm gonna say what's coming up for me at this very moment is we have to put our position ourselves in the position to ask the question in a way that we want to receive the feedback. A lot of times we don't do that, right? Because we don't want to be rejected. We don't want our feelings to be here. We all have feelings, right? We've got to put ourselves in the position, we've got to ask the question in a way that solicits the feedback. And if we can do that, and meaning we're ready to take it, like hit me with it, I'm ready, then put our armors on because it's not personal. 99.9% of the times it's not personal. So we're gonna go to the last question. Before we do, you know, Sean, I have an idea for you. Insider Secrets about Sean Popovich. Sean makes hats, and he's got a little Instagram over there where he's making these embroidered hats that are really cool. It's the only place you can find him on Instagram. Sean, you need to make custom hats for your presentations and bring them in and give them out. You'd be having you'd that'd be creating some Raven fans for you.

Shawn:

Hey, he's turning red now. Yeah, I know. I definitely didn't expect that. And I've been a little light. There's been a lot of life things happening, all positive, but I've been light on that hat front. And uh that's funny though. And hey, I will say this, I'm not gonna name dealer names. I went into a market and met with a dealer, and it was great. It wasn't in front of the screen. We actually went golfing. It was awesome, you know, good conversations happen. I think it's underrated that that sort of setting. You learn a lot personally and you know, business if you get into it. And I have a 3H hat. Marketing team still, I don't know if they don't know that, so here we are. And I wore it, and it's kind of like old school sports trick without getting into it, but the the the dealer guy's like, that's sweet. It's like the old bears' caps kind of thing. And I made them made their dealership a hat and went good. Sent it to them. Yeah, maybe I could do more of that. Good.

Sid: 

Sorry, I just have to pick on you a little bit.

Shawn:

That's hilarious, though. Yeah, yeah.

Kristen: 

I think anytime you can bring in something personal like that, like they'll remember, like, that's the hat guy, you know, or like Danica incorporates yoga that she's big into. I had a regional one time that connected with a dealer. He was big into guitars, and she sent him like a Lego guitar, you know, or something. And whether we do business or not, like he'll always remember that. Like she took the time to get to know me enough and spent 20 bucks to send me something in the mail, you know, something for them to remember you by. I made dot cakes this past week for some of my dealers. It's like this viral thing, and I was gonna try it. And there were some birthdays, and they were just like, Wow, this is really it's it's much more personal than picking up something from the grocery store. Um, and I love to bake, and now they know that I love to bake.

Sid: 

So okay, Leah, you got the last question you want to present to the group. So wrap us up with this.

Reaching And Developing The Next Generation

Leah: 

Yes. Okay. So mine is kind of going on to how do we connect with the younger just coming out of college, or even as students, how do we connect with them? Because they are the next group of designers that are coming into our world and are going to be specifying our products and the ones that are gonna be eventually coming into sales positions and all of these things. But how do we connect with them where they are? Because yes, some of them did grow up in the middle of COVID and that changed their life and how they learned and how they interact and how they how they, you know, uh consume our content. And are they consuming content from the work industry? Like, how do we connect with them? Where do we meet them in their world?

Sid: 

That is such a great question. And uh yeah, so I'm I'm gonna hold my comment. Sean, I mean, yeah, Sean, tell us. How do you connect with the next generation of designers?

Shawn:

I'd like to touch on this, but I do want to say, like, I'm it's not my world, and it probably could be more in this role. Like a question that one could answer or not, and we just keep flowing. But it's like, how do we currently do it? Like, I'm sure there's people doing it. Is it is it just out in touch? That's what I don't know. But my mind immediately goes to like maybe it's a challenge that like this industry is way more interesting than I think we make it sound a lot of the times. And there's so many different personality types out there, and there's so many different roles within this industry, like sales, finance, design, project management. So there's there's all that out there, and then connecting with the younger people, like they might even think differently than what how we thought back in the day. Sustainability, how people work. Like, don't need to rhyme off all of them, but I know that's where my mind goes. Like, how do you touch them in things that really get them excited versus you want to work in office furniture? Like, because that's not um that's not the sexiest way to put it. And that's where I don't know. I'm not saying that is how people are going about it, but that's I I and I guess it's an experience how I got into the industry, and maybe many of us, it's probably unintentional. Didn't know anything about it. And I'll and I'll end with my kind of foray into the industry. I have a graphic design background, then I sold Red Bull, then I went to teachers college, and then I was like, I have no job. That was basically that was basically it. And I was lucky enough to have a colleague that worked at Herman Miller, and we were talking, and she said the dealer is hiring a role, you know, sales role. You'd probably be good at it. You should interview, and my first question was like, What's a dealer and all this, and what's Herman Miller? I didn't even know who Herman Miller was. And the dealer thing, the way she stop me at any time here, I will try and make this short, but the the way she talked, I was like, What is the deal? And the way she explained it at a time, like I thought it was, I don't know if you have this in the US, but Leon's furniture. Like she's like, You have a showroom. No, it's it's like a retail store. So you have a showroom and people would come in and look at furniture. You know, kind of that was the story. I'm like, what? Like, but I also I don't have a job. So I'm gonna take the interview, I'm gonna take the interview, and I remember going in. So this was a Miller, I'm a Miller dealer, and I remember going in and just being blown away. You know, like I'm not saying I was a big interiors guy, I've evolved in that that sense, but I walked in and it was like, wow. And the people were awesome that I met with, that was one thing, but just the everything about it, the feeling and realizing the actual industry and going after end users and then the network, and they're talking about designers, and I was like, even when they explained it, I'm like, I don't really know what you're talking about, but it sounds awesome. And I remember leaving that that room or that that space and just being like, I need this job. And that's how I ended up getting into it, and it just was so much cooler than I thought it was. That's a simple way to put it, but then I started going to events and you know, meeting designers and meeting the network, and and I'll leave it at this. I was younger, and I was 16-ish years ago and going out a lot more, different, different life, life stage, but I was inviting my buddies. I was like, there's an open bar, it's an awesome event. You gotta you gotta come check this out. Like I was just pumped to show people the industry, and yeah, I guess point point of the story, I had no idea. You know, and so it's how do you I don't know. That could be part of it, how do you promote that a little more? Like it's really fun.

Sid: 

This topic in general is one of the biggest challenges facing our industry. Unfortunately, this episode will air after the collaborative networks uh Spark conversation about rethinking your A and D engagement. So I don't have any insights from that to share, but this is one of the biggest things. But I love how you framed it, Leah, about needing the younger designer where they're at. How do we get in front of the younger designer? And, you know, so Chris, as a dealer, like how do you guys get in front of the younger designers, the ones right coming right out of school?

Chris: 

That's a great question. And it's ever evolving. You know, I look at this panel and I look at Leah and Kristen. They probably have a great polished answer.

Kristen: 

I I can I am not fresh out of school, but you're very sweet to call me young, Chris. Thank you so much for that.

Chris: 

But I could think of my very first presentation, and it was hysterically awful. And uh so it's evolved through the years, but how to connect with the young crowd, and I think it's you know, just show up and do a lunch and learn, sure. Um, but I have known of other folks and and I've done it too, and I do think you get the uh the meetings likely are referenced where you're doing a happy hour or you're doing something more creative than that, perhaps. And that's probably where you're going to have real conversations or or decent conversations. I'm talking to somebody that's half my age at that point. And so we're not gonna connect on what we do in our spare time, we're not gonna connect on uh, you know, our hobbies or or whatever we're into. That's just not gonna happen. So just kind of breaking down the barriers in more of a relaxed environment would be my take on it.

Sid: 

Okay. I'm I could I could disagree with the comment that you just made. The coach me wants to challenge you on that, but I'm not going to because I do believe those of us that are more senior, in my case, gray hair, Chris. So I think we have a lot to offer them. We may not be the same, have the same interests that they have, we may not read the same books that they read or listen to the same podcasts that they read. But I think as experienced people in our industry, we have a lot that we can share with them about the journey, about how much we love this business, why we got into it, what our favorite part is. And for me, and then we're gonna go to Kristen, let her wrap us up here, I think that's what we have to do, Leah. I know that in design schools, a lot of the universities will open up for the reps to come in and present to the students. But guess what? They're showing up and throwing up. They're throwing up all about steel case and all about talk about the industry. Talk about what you love about the industry, talk about why you got in it. Because if all of us collectively raised our voices and talked about our industry and why we love working in this space and all of the opportunities that are available, not just to interior design students, but to a lot of people inside of our industry, inside of factories, inside of rep groups, inside of dealerships. There's so many opportunities. We should all talk about it more and stop talking about product, but go meet them where they are at school and tell the director of design at that program that you want to come in and talk about the industry. You don't want to come in and talk about your products or give a presentation on why my brand is the best brand ever and it's the only brand you ever need to specify. No, no, no, just go talk about like the relationship building aspect of it. In the case that I'm doing Leah with your group of the emerging designers, talking about personal branding and why that's so important. That's adding value to them. So let's think about how can we add value to the students and hopefully one day they remember that the more mature people in the room help them along the way. And when they run into Chris and realize Chris is at a dealership and that's best selling furniture, I'm gonna buy for Chris because he helped me when I was young. Right? That's how I think about it. Kristen, take us home on this on this uh question, please.

Kristen: 

I have a similar answer to what you just said, Sid, but I would just say find a way to connect with them. Just be like, hey, you want to go to coffee? You know, and if if you're an older guy and it feels weird to say that to a 25-year-old, just be like, bring a friend, you know. I mean, or can I bring you coffee? Like, what is your coffee order? Just see them and notice them and find a way to connect. And I have a 22-year-old and I am mother in anytime I can can be. You know, I just I want to connect with them and like tell me about your family, tell me about your dogs, you know, what do you love to do? And I think that, you know, if you think about it, especially if they're new, maybe in a dealership or or a design firm, and they're probably thinking, what in the world have I gotten myself into? I wish I was working for a high-end residential design firm or, you know, designing cool billion-dollar homes. Just to, like Sid said, like just share with them your love for this industry and introduce them to your friends and help them understand how you help each other and you know, collaborate and how fun it is. And I, you know, promote IDA any chance I can get, but we work with two universities in San Antonio. And like you said, we do product presentations and talk about what you could be when you get out of school. But if there's 40 of them in a room, you're not connecting with them. And so if you can just, you know, sit, maybe they're from another state, maybe they're from another country. I met a young lady who moved here from Oman and she drived an hour, she drove an hour to be a part of our event, just in the hopes of connecting with someone in our industry. And I sat and talked with her for 30 minutes. And so, and we will stay in touch. And so I would just say, just find a way, you know, to just know, let them know that they're seen and they're scared, you know, they're probably not making very much money. They probably maybe have to pay rent or pay their car payment for the first time, or you know, just keep trying. Like, don't give up. Don't make the assumption, like, oh, they're not gonna want to talk to a dude like me. You know. Maybe they will. Maybe, maybe, maybe they, you know, maybe nobody's really seen them all day. just cranking out stuff on a computer and they were wishing for a reason to take a five-minute break.

Sid: 

All right, Shawn, what you got, man?

Shawn:

And  I kind of reflecting, I'm not sure if I even understood the original question correctly. I was talking about getting like people that didn't really know the industry. So not sure if that was uh that answered the right question. But doubling down a bit more on what here and here it's like younger people maybe maybe they're not in the in the industry but you want to get them in. But if they are in school and they're just you know kind of figuring things out. Someone brought it up earlier the networking thing is so important just connecting people but this I'm not saying it's an older industry. But there is there's a lot of you know older people in it. And I really feel the younger generation just being empowered and that's on us to let them know and help them through it and share experiences but they have such an opportunity to contribute to what the what the future of this industry is and what it's like you know are we still going to be using 50 10 five discounts? Like can we get rid of that? Like maybe maybe someone can actually figure that out if they're a little younger. It's like let's never hear that again. But joking aside there is a lot of things they can contribute and that's on them. It's on us to get them to that point but just sharing those experiences and empowering them it's uh really really cool to hear you guys talking about that.

Sid: 

But I think one of the things is like who can we introduce them to who can we connect them to like your friend this lady that you met from Oman Kristen like who could you connect her to how can you be that connector piece but the bridge between her and maybe her next opportunity or her and something else she wants to learn or somebody else she wants to meet. I think we can all do that. You might meet a designer that's talking to you about her and that how much she loves carpet and carpet rep, right? I think if you listen there's so many opportunities that we can make connections we can connect the dot and our industry is small but it is big and if we all connect dots then it gets even better right yeah I mean this has been an absolute fantastic conversation just flowing I love all of you sharing your insights wow what a great conversation thank you all so much for being here today and for joining me and I gotta say if this conversation proves anything it's that the people listening to the Trend Report are not passive listeners. They are thoughtful professionals who care about our industry and they're paying attention to what's changing questioning the way things have always been done and looking for ways to make our relationships and our businesses better. Chris, Leah, Sean and Kristen, thank you for taking the mic, bringing your ideas and helping me celebrate this milestone.

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Outro:

Thank you to everyone listening. Thank you for every download every share every comment every message and every conversation you have started because of something you heard on this show. You have helped make the Trend Report more than a podcast. You've helped to make it a place where our industry can think, learn and move forward together. I am incredibly grateful for the first 200 episodes and even more excited about the conversations that are still ahead. If you've been part of the Trend Report community I would love to hear from you. Send me a message tell me about an episode that has stayed with you challenged you or helped you see something differently. Your ideas and your feedback continue to shape this show and today's episode is proof of that. Thank you for being here thank you for listening in and thank you for being part of the Trend Report your inside look at the people products and ideas shaping the future of workplace design go out there and make today great and we will see you in the next episode. Take care everyone